The purveyors of conspiracy theories concerning the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington on 11th September 2001 try to claim that al-Qaeda was a scapegoat for “false flag” atrocities committed by the US government against its own people. One would assume that were this to be true, al-Qaeda’s own leaders and spokesmen would be quick to deny their responsibility for a barbaric act which was condemned by Quranic scholars as a violation of the tenets of Islam, and which actually caused considerable outrage in the Muslim world.
Unfortunately for the “Truthers”, this isn’t happening.
Conspiracy theorists are quick to allege that statements attributed to Osama bin Laden are faked. What they are not prepared to admit is that it is not only bin Laden and his co-leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, who readily acknowledge their responsibility for - and pride in - 9/11, but a number of lower-level figures who do the same, not just in public statements released via al-Jazeera, but in messages and treatises circulated online between al-Qaeda activists and their affiliates.
This article discusses al-Qaeda’s own internal strategic debates in detail, and also includes quotes from ideologists and senior terrorists within this group on 9/11. They are worth noting in full:
The power and significance of the raid on the US enemy lay not only in the loss of life and property, but also in the political message that the raid sent to the freedom-loving downtrodden who yearn for freedom, dignity and pride … It was unexpected and unimaginable. It struck a sudden blow at the [USA] from an unexpected direction ….
Al-Qa’ida took the enemy by surprise with the raids on New York and Washington. Roles were reversed, and the enemy was thrown into confusion by the event. He was left looking for explanations, a prisoner of his reactions. The mujahidin were in motion, moving the battle along, a powerful factor in their favor (sic). This is the secret of the United States’ fear of al-Qa’ida. Al Qa’ida has hit on the correct method for fighting and defeating the Americans, God willing.
Abu Ayman al-Hilali, “The Real Story of the Raids on New York and Washington”, in Essays on the September 11th Raid (2002). al-Hilali (to use his nom de guerre) is a senior al-Qaeda leader and ideologist. More on him here.
[The 9/11 attacks] put fear in the hearts of Americans everywhere. Warnings of impending jihad attacks have taken a murderous toll on the nerves of the US masses, who do not understand why their vast military apparatus has failed to stop these attacks …
The cameras of CNN and other Western media dinosaurs undertook the task of filming the raid and sowing fear in its aftermath. It didn’t cost Al-Qa’ida a cent.
Abu Ubayd al-Qirshi, “The 11th September Raid: The impossible becomes possible”, in Essays on the September 11th Raid. al-Qirshi is another senior al-Qaeda strategists, see here for more.
Our ultimate objective of these painful strikes against the head of the serpent was to prompt it to come out of its hole. This would make it easier for us to deal consecutive blows to undermine it and tear it apart. It would foster our credibility in front of our nation and the beleaguered people of the world. A person will react randomly when he receives painful strikes on his head from an undisclosed enemy. Such strikes will force the person to carry out random acts and provoke him to make serious and sometimes fatal mistakes. This was what actually happened.
Sayf al-Adl, an al-Qaeda military commander, in Peter Bergen, The Osama bin Landen I Know: An Oral History of Al-Qaeda’s Leader (NY: Free Press 2006), p.309. More on him here.
It is an excellent strategic surprise. The American intelligence services were caught by a surprise (sic) that they had not considered … It is a surprise that had results. This surprise led to a shock in the American consciousness [and] lead to a radical change in the perception of American Security.
Mohammad Khalil al-Hakaymah (AKA Mohammad Hasan Khalil al-Hakim, or Abu Jihad al-Masri), The Myth of Delusion: Exposing the American Intelligence. al-Hakaymah is an al-Qaeda commander who is said to have been killed in a US Predator strike in Pakistan on 31st October 2008. More on him here.
I could go on, but nothing more needs to be said. Despite the lies peddled by the misnamed “truth movement”, al-Qaeda’s message about 9/11 is clear and consistent - We did it, and we are proud of it. The attempts by increasingly deranged conspiracy theorists to claim otherwise therefore not only lack any credibility, but also leave the Truthers open to ridicule.
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93 responses
That Onion video is hilarious.
‘Peter Bergen, The Osama bin Landen I Know: An Oral History of Al-Qaeda’s Leader (NY: Free Press 2006)’.
All, apologies for the typo.
What amuses me is that Al Qaeda are actually quite offended by all the conspiracy theories, even to the point of denouncing Iran for spreading misinformation about the Jews being responsible:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/23/MN4U109VEJ.DTL
Bin Laden expert, Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University’s Religious Studies program, says the confession video of Oct 2002 is fake….not Bin Laden….
http://www.911blogger.com/node/6317
Osama is not wanted for 9/11. It is not on his wanted poster. FBI never sought a grand jury indictment against Bin Laden for 9/11. They have admitted this is due to not having any evidence. And no evidence has ever been offered by the Federal Government. This according to…Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, a London-born author and political scientist specialising in interdisciplinary security studies. He teaches International Relations at the School of Social Sciences and Cultural Studies, University of Sussex, Brighton.
Jeremy
What is Bruce Lawrences evidence for suggesting that the tape is not genuine?
“Why would they want to kill 3,000 of their own infidels?”
Gotta love The Onion.
OK, Jeremy, but Zacarias Moussaoui was indicted and imprisoned for 9/11. How do you account for that?
bin Laden has been indicted for the 1998 bombings in Nairobi and Dar Es Salaam and “is a suspect in other terrorist attacks around the world”. I’m sure if he’s ever captured for the 1998 attacks, it won’t be long until he’s charged with the 9/11 attacks.
The problem with “truthers” is that they generally have little knowledge of the world around them. But just because they never heard of bin Laden before 9/11 doesn’t mean he wasn’t out there working towards global jihad.
Jeremy,
Lawrence is a Bin Laden expert? Says who? I’ve read several books on bin laden………….does that make me an expert as well? I also have read a ton of books on islam I guess that makes me an expert in middle east religions. Sweet. I wonder if I read enough I can just automatically start calling myself Dr. Buck.
Jeremy repeats the ‘truther’ lie about the FBI having no evidence for OBL’s role in 9/11. This claim came from a ‘truther’ called Ed Haas (not sure if that’s rhyming slang or not), in which he distorted the outcome of an FBI press conference reported here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/27/AR2006082700687.html
Note in particular the following:
‘”The indictments currently listed on the posters allow them to be arrested and brought to justice,” the FBI says in a note accompanying the terrorist list on its Web site. “Future indictments may be handed down as various investigations proceed in connection to other terrorist incidents, for example, the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001.”‘
I have seen no reliable source (i.e. non-truther) that backs Jeremy’s point about Bruce Lawrence. Prof Lawrence is the editor of a book entitled ‘Messages to the World’, analysing OBL’s statements from 1988 to 2004. I sincerely doubt he’d place his academic credibility on the line by devoting his attention to a book on bin Laden’s pronouncements if he had any doubts about their veracity:
http://dukereligion.blogspot.com/2007/08/bruce-lawrence-in-news.html
In any case, Jeremy has no comeback to the essential point of this post, which is the consistency with which al-Qaeda justifies and defends its role in an act of mass murder. Whether it is bin Laden and Zawahiri’s statements (as passed on by al Jazeera), or in internet chatter between its affiliates (as examined here), it is striking to note that not one member of the AQ network says ‘Hang on … we’re being set up. We didn’t do this’. And it is indeed striking to note the contrast with ETA after the March 2004 attacks on Madrid. The Basques were swift to deny responsibility, and to rebut efforts by the Aznar government to frame them. If AQ is innocent, why have they not done the same?:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/15/world/main606205.shtml
There is only one logical and sensible explanation for AQ’s continued persistence in accepting responsibility for 9/11. And it is one that the increasingly marginalised body of fanatics associated with the ‘truth movement’ refuse to accept.
Jeremy
Where are you…..? No response….I suggest you create a new name and post more garbage….probably links to other retarded truther sites. Utimately, it is your only option ………Or failing that have you thought about thinking for yourself and coming up with a rational and cogent argument?
All you have to do is post a good argument……
Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed is a London-born author and political scientist specialising in interdisciplinary security studies. He teaches International Relations at the School of Social Sciences and Cultural Studies, University of Sussex, Brighton, where he is currently engaged in Doctoral research on European imperial genocides from the 15th to the 19th centuries.
One of the world’s foremost authorities in terrorism and conflict analysis, in July 2005 he testified as an expert witness at a special all-day Congressional hearing on 9/11 and international terrorism sponsored by Hon. Reps. Cynthia McKinney and Raul Grijalva.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raul_Grijalva
http://nafeez.mediamonitors.net/
Raul Grijalva: In 2006, the conservative National Journal ranked him as the 21st most liberal member in the House of Representatives, based on his votes in 2005.[4] Along with 25 other Democratic House members, he was ranked most liberal in economic policy votes; with 17 other Democrats he was most liberal on foreign policy. He was ranked as more liberal than 84% of Representatives on social issues. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) gives him a lifetime score of 98% for his voting record.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raul_Grijalva
Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed appears to be a Muslim terror apologist and anti-western. He is championed by the likes of Cynthia McKinney and Raul Grijalva, and it is not clear where his expertise in the area of US federal law enforcement would derive from. Even with those ’sterling endorsements’ I can’t seem to find where he denies OBL’s or AQ’s agency (can’t say culpability with this guy) in 911. Jermy, please fill us in.
Jermey, Also since 911 was an ‘inside job’. Don’t you find it strange that the FBI wouldn’t take care of this little detail? Or is it that the FBI may permit the murder of 3000 citizens, but they draw the line at evidence falsification.
The arguments of both sides prove very little. It is not uncommon for terrorist groups to claim the successes of rival groups or of emerging new groups. On the other hand, if someone at CIA had felt the need to fake an admission of responsibility, that does not prove that OBL did not inspire or organize the operation.
Bu the main issue here is that 9/11 as an inside job makes no sense. However, the official story makes even less sense. Take a very simple issues, UA 93.
Your argument #15 was that “Flight UA93 was not shot down.”
I rejoiced: finally someone has squared the theory of the jet crashing into a field in Pennsylvania with the facts of debris falling over many square miles. So I looked all over your articles for the data backing conclusion 15, and what I saw were statements of faIth, but no explanation. I must have missed something.
“I rejoiced: finally someone has squared the theory of the jet crashing into a field in Pennsylvania with the facts of debris falling over many square miles.”
Where did you read that the debris fell over many square miles? Even if the USAF shot down flight flight #93, which they have stated that they didn’t, would that make it anyless hi-Jacked?
Of course it was hijacked, but I just remember that it was generally accepted that debris came down over an area of a number of square miles. If so, our rulers are hiding something. If not, three cheers.
‘matteo’, my response to your initial post is being moderated. But once it has been cleared you will see that your statement about debris being distributed over many square miles (and by debris, I take this to mean actual parts of the plane) is way off the mark.
O meu amigo, , The myth of aeroplane debris being scattered over many square miles was ’shot down’ by the well known debunking of 911 myths by the magazine Popular Science.. In the USA we don’t have “rulers” per se. They are elected representatives. We should get our facts straight before we accuse them of things.
Lincoln wrote: “Allow the President to invade a…country whenever he shall deem it necessary…and you allow him to do so, whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary…and you allow him to make war at pleasure…Kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending …that the good of the people was the object. This our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all kingly oppressions.”
SInce our elected representatives have seized the power to take us to war whenever they choose, without an open national debate, and often against the will of the majority, we have rulers.
The inquiry into 9/11 tends to put to the fore paranoids. Rational critics of the regime would be pleased if the fantasists were to ascend as soon as possible to higher and better world. So I would be delighted and deeply thankful if you managed to put all doubts and suspicions to rest.
“SInce our elected representatives have seized the power to take us to war whenever they choose, without an open national debate, and often against the will of the majority, we have rulers.” - mat
Your verbage about ‘rulers’ and ’seizing power’ are a tad overdone. No wonder you’re prone to buy into conspiracy theories.
“national debate” what is it? It doesn’t exist Constitutionally. The majority of the people have probably never wanted to be in any war in this nation’s history (at least when things weren’t going well) and that includes the Revolutionary War.
In the USA the will of the people is expressed through their elected representatives in Congress. That’s called a republican form of government. The Invasion of Iraq was authorized by the people’s reps in Congress if that is where you’re going with all this. Many of those reps were later voted out of office so it doesn’t seem like they were “rulers” either.
Congressional Iraq Resolution: Public Law 107–243
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Resolution_to_Authorize_the_Use_of_United_States_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq
http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf
I’ll jump in for Jeremy…go to the FBI WEBSITE.
Who cares what compromised news agencies have to say about it…get it from the horse’s mouth…er, web page.
Justa Joe typed:
“Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed appears to be a Muslim terror apologist and anti-western. ”
Hmmm…which word will I stress?
Maybe…APPEARS?
Isn’t that the ENTIRE IDEA of a Psy-Op?
what on the FBI WEBSITE do you WANT us TO SEE, you lunatic who SHOULD be LOCKED UP in a STRAITJACKET?
The framers of the Constitution did not mention a national debate because it was unthinkable then, that there would not be a loud opposition party. Sure enough,at the time of our first patriotic adventure in 1812, there were the Federalists,trying to stop it, speaking very loudly, without fear.
In the following wars, both the major ones and the hundred minor assaults upon small countries such as Haiti, Iraq, or Serbia, debate was not permitted because no party dared to challenge the bellicose patriots. According to Lincoln, that’s tyranny.
As for the 9/11 conspiracionism, it seems absurd to me, mainly because it is so difficult to keep people quiet in America.
I love this website– I just found you guys. And I hope you can confirm,with facts, my belief that a 9/11 plot was absurd because it was to impossibly difficult to create and because there was no need for it.
“Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed appears to be a Muslim terror apologist and anti-western. ”- JJ
Hmmm…which word will I stress?
Maybe…APPEARS?…” - Hanover
I was trying to be charitable. Here you go… “Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed is a Muslim terror apologist and anti-western. ”
“Nafeez Ahmed: The Genocidal Nature of Modern Civilization”
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=‘2911′&batch=16&lists=newslog
My main point about Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed is that I can’t find where he has stated that OBL was not respomsible for 911 as suggested by your troofer confederate.
The whole hijack story is a bit strange. Don´t they have any means to steer a runaway plane by computer from elsewhere?
OMG! In troofer land ignorance is trully bliss.
Jouni, There have been +1000 hijackings from the dawn of aviation up to 2001. Have you ever heard of a single case of a plane being controlled remotely in order to thwart a hijacking?
It doesn’t appear that the technology to remotely control a commercial airliner existed at the time of 911 nor has it ever been employed in the history of commercial passenger aviation. Even today I’m not aware that this technology exists in the world’s fleet of commercial passenger planes.
A brief history of hijackings:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0UBT/is_7_14/ai_59576754/
Jouni, If the ability to remotely control “runaway” planes was available to use by the authorities why was it not employed with EgyptAir Flight 990, which was crashed by the co-pilot, just to name one such incident?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990
Thanks Justa Joe for taking the time to answer. I am paranoid and I´ve got documents to prove it.
The technology to remotely control planes certainly existed in 2001, but I don´t know if such systems are really in place or if they have ever been used. Somebody told me that the whole steering system in today´s planes in run by a wlan network.
“State Department goes after Boeing”
“The State Department has prepared civil charges against Boeing alleging 94 violations of the Arms Control Act because the company sold commercial airliners without obtaining an export license for a tiny gyrochip that has defense applications.”
…………………
“The State Department charges against Boeing relate to the export of jets that contain a gyroscopic microchip called QRS-11, used as a backup system in determining a plane’s orientation in the air.
Though a Boeing document refers to the chip as “relatively unsophisticated” technology, the gyrochip also has been used to help stabilize and steer guided missiles.
In the draft charging letter, the State Department’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls alleges that between 2000 and 2003 Boeing broke export control laws in shipping to China and other countries what was then classified as militarily significant technology.
Further, it claims the company did so deliberately and repeatedly even after it had been warned to stop.”
(Seattle Times, July 6th 2005)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002359561_boeingqrs06.html
http://www.systron.com/pro_QRS11.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o
http://firefightersfor911truth.org/
Why did Bin Laden deny his involvement TWICE in the attacks of 9/11? He was quick to announce his responsibility for his other attacks, why change his MO for the biggest attack of his life? Only in the third video do we hear him admit responsibility, and that is the highly suspect “Fat Bin Laden” video which looks nothing like him, where he is right handed and wearing jewelry which is forbidden in Islam.
Why does the FBI say it has “no hard evidence” linking Bin Laden to 9/11? Why isn’t he wanted for the crime of 9/11 on his FBI most wanted poster?
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
You expect us Truthers to have all the answers, which we can’t possibly have. How did they get exlposives in the towers? We have no idea. That’s why we are asking for a new investigation. If you find a dead body with a hole in the head you don’t need to know exactly how it was done to know there was a crime committed? That’s what a thorough investigation is for. All us truthers are asking for is a new investigation, something even the heads of the 9/11 commission have said is necessary.
Finally, you want to keep harping on secondary facts on 9/11 like airphones, thinking you are debunking something. Debunk this video, and I swear to you that I will renounce 9/11 truth and will join you if you can prove the information in this video is false:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4617650616903609314
911,
Welcome to a month ago. The fantasy of the FBI not considering OBL complicit in 911 has already been debunked.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/27/AR2006082700687.html
I wish the twoofers would explain how the FBI, who would necessarily be complicit in an “inside job” to create 911, would fail to manufacture evidence to implicate their designated “patsy” (OBL) ?
‘Why did Bin Laden deny his involvement TWICE in the attacks of 9/11?’
The supposed ‘denial’ came in the form of a written response to a series of questions supposedly carried by courier into Afghanistan in the aftermath of 11th September 2001. There is absolutely no way of determining whether this response was provided by OBL, or for that matter anyone in Al Qaeda:
http://www.911myths.com/html/responsibility.html
On Planet ‘Truther’, this one spurious ‘denial’ outweighs repeated statements of admission by bin Laden, Zawahiri and other leadership figures, the internet ‘chatter’ noted above, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed’s interview with the al-Jazeera journalist Yosri Fouda, and repeated releases of martyrdom videos from the 19 hijackers. This just goes to show how low the ‘truther’ threshold of proof is for their fantasies.
‘Justa Joe’ has already dealt with the FBI/Bin Laden indictment canard, which itself originates from a typical act of ‘truther’ distortion:
http://counterknowledge.com/2009/03/15-questions-for-truthers-a-final-response-to-stewart-bradley/
Incidentally, regarding Richard Gage’s ‘controlled demolition’ claims, I am still waiting for a ‘truther’ who can cite anyone with expertise in this field who can state that it is possible for buildings the size of the WTC towers to be quickly and quietly rigged for destruction without anyone in the building noticing. Or for that matter, whether a building destroyed by a CD can be done so without leaving tell-tale signs of evidence (e.g. bits of det cord, traces of the explosives in the debris) afterwards.
I’m also eager for a ‘truther’ to explain these photos away:
http://layscience.net/node/124
You are so sure of your own speculation…. hmmm.
Please enlighten me, why were the Bin Laden family so conveniently evacuated from the country just days after the attack?
Regardless… al-Qaeda - may have been a tool in this attack as they have been since the cold war - this does not mean that NORAD didn’t stand down, nor does it explain the reasons why the Pentagon, if they wanted to quiet this Truth Movement, don’t simply release a frame of video that actually shows a plane.
I suppose that you believe the 911 Commission was truly non-bias? That would be like investigating your own crime -
and it was -
Sec. Mineta testified that He witnessed Cheney order NORAD to stand down. If he was lying, it still warrants further investigation. I could go on and on. Your page really is a waste of a decent HTML layout. Oh by the way many-many people testified that there were security lock downs the days leading up to the attacks where there were unscheduled maintenance, cameras and bomb sniffing dogs removed and shut off. If you truly weren’t PART of a feeble attempt at Dis Information site you would at least give intelligent notice to many of the unanswered questions. you skirt the entire issue ….. Excuse the typing - in a rush….
Show me Bin Laden - Truly - Bin Laden, not a right-handed look alike, or any one of his officers claim responsibility. There is no such statement that can be considered genuine. The existence of a fake video of BL, only proves that he is being used.
“Please enlighten me, why were the Bin Laden family so conveniently evacuated from the country just days after the attack?” - S.H.
Please elighten us as to what you are getting at. On one hand you seem to have an unflappable faith in the innocence of OBL while at the same time holding his extended family members culpable.
Common sense would suggest that OBL’s relatives were allowed to leave for their own safety. Not knowing if people would take reprisals against them it would seem to be prudent. If in fact the people that were allowed to leave had some complicity in the events they would have probably left before 911.
Can you come up with examples where criminals’ family members are held without evidence of their complicity? I would assume the majority if not all of the people who left were foreign nationals and had the right to leave if they wanted to. Do you want to be held in a foreign country without charge, or do you know of a specific person that left the country that sould have been charged with something , or are you just pulling stuff out of Mikey Moore’s ass?
“I suppose that you believe the 911 Commission was truly non-bias? - ” S.H.
Actually most people with an understanding of politics understand that the 911 commission had bias. The 2 major political parties were both attempting to place the blame on the other. Pretty standard fare actually.
Anyway you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t in twoofer land. Usually twoofers are carping about how the Bush administration resisted the formation of the 911 commission, and that is supposed to imply guilt. Now this twoofer is suggesting that the 911 commission was “bias” [SIC], which would mean that Bush should have welcomed the 911 commission.
Twoofers seem to have the notion that the 911 commission was the only investigation into 911. Every law enforcement arm of the ferderal govt investigated 911 from the joint terrorism task force down to the EPA.
“The September 11 investigation, the largest criminal investigation in U.S. history”
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/2003_h/03-04-03_ashcroft.htm
http://www.epa.gov/Compliance/criminal/homelandsecurity/911.html
First of all I made no such claim of innocence. Certainly if your claim that Osama is responsible for the greatest attack on American soil, certainly we may have needed to question the family members. But we did no such thing, we shut down ALL air travel except for those closest to Bin Laden, you must admit that this tends to imply innocence. As for any example of detaining relatives of war criminals, Well - lets see, how about any and all Japanese-Americans that were rounded up and put into POW camps for simply being Japanese, in this case we took no chances. I am not condoning this as reasonable in the case of the attack on Pearl Harbor; since docs such as the Northwoods Docs tend to show the willingness of our Military Ind. Complex to commit whatever crimes they deem necessary to join a war.
False Flag Ops are not a new idea. You see whether or not our govt was directly involved in the attack on 911 or simply let it happen, it is still a crime either way. According to White House memos we were very well aware that attacks like these were in the works.
I feel it’s a little convenient that operations to track such suspects “Able Danger” were intentionally squashed - resulting in resignations of FBI agents.
Not to mention the completely ridiculous orgies evidence miraculously accumulated hours after the attack.
It only takes a little common sense to see through the accumulative white-wash.
But I think that critical thinking for some is completely impossible because its easier to just believe what your programming tells you.
So, if you’d like to go ahead offer a free pass to those responsible go ahead. there are so many truly intelligent Americans that want answers. We will not buy the corporate myth of terrorists, I suppose you believe that that the Contras didn’t happen and that Bush 41 wasn’t directly involved in Cocaine importation.
There is nothing that you can do or say that will convince me that the investigation into 911 was thorough in any way.
Please let the FBI in on your infallible evidence, even after the orgies of evidence such as passports flying out of the pockets of hi-jackers out of the explosions down to the streets of Manhattan to be conveniently picked up by FBI (PLEASE) they still don’t make any claim that Osama Bin Laden is charged with the crime.
By the way Mike Moore is a corporate stooge…..just like yourself.
By the way…. you seem to have something against people who simply want the truth. Why? Do you think think that people want to live in a country where your government lies or omits the truth? I think for myself, I claim no allegiance to any group other than my self and my children, I do not need to be part of any group to simply use common sense. I didn’t wake up and think to myself, “Gee, I need something else to worry about.”
It has become very obvious that those who call themselves our leaders crave WAR. Why else would you own stock in companies like the Carlyle Group that both Bush and Bin-Laden families own? If I went into business with the bin-laden family, I think people would think that I were a traitor.
When War is your business then you certainly cannot profit without it.
700 architects after studying the videos agree that building 7 was demolished by explosives. You see I’m sure that all of these educated people simply want to create a conspiracy- yeah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO2yT0uBQbM
……….and another thing - he-he.
Schools are struggling to pay their teachers, to keep the arts available to talented kids. Class rooms are completely overloaded. Yet we spend billions, if not trillions of dollars on building a country that never asked for our help.
CORPORATE INTERESTS: this is the only reason that we are still in IRAQ. If you cannot see this you are truly lost.
A WAR based on false pretense helps no-one.
what did IRAQ have to do with 911. If you believe that those people want our so-called exported democracy. Your truly deluded. Their culture isn’t based in consuming all you can. They have no need for mile after mile of strip malls. The only people that serves are the corporate interests the creates them. A million dead Iraqis,…. from their perspective Americans may very well be the terrorists.
It seems to me that if we want to get rid of terrorists, we shouldn’t push our culture on them. We do more now to provoke a response than ever before. Is this a bit counter productive.
So much money spent on not finding Osama. Hmmm?
Do you faithfully support everything that the Bush Administration has done?
I think that people like you spend far too much time pointing the finger at people who believe in the truth and The Constitution and simply want answers without ever offering any real contribution to TRUTH, LIBERTY and THE AMERICAN WAY.
If our founding fathers didn’t stand up against tyranny where would we be now??
Something is wrong with a society that has more prisons than schools. wouldn’t you say? all these things are related.
“if your claim that Osama is responsible for the greatest attack on American soil, certainly we may have needed to question the family members. But we did no such thing,” -SH
You state for a fact that no one questioned OBL relatives that left the country. You cannot substatiate that claim. You then presume that these people cannot be questioned while outside of the USA, which is not true. You don’t seem to understand the concept of Int’l reciprosity. If we screw with citizens (without proof) of other countries then they screw with our citizens. All of these people were cleared by US enforcement agencies prior to their depature.
Every one of your long since dispensed with 911 claims have been debunked already within the 911 posts on this very blog. They’re getting tiresome. You should read this thread. It will answer many of your well worn claims.
http://counterknowledge.com/2008/12/15-questions-911-truthers-now-need-to-answer/
“There is nothing that you can do or say that will convince me that the investigation into 911 was thorough in any way…
you seem to have something against people who simply want the truth. ” - SH
CLASSIC: You’re the perfect Twoofer. You freely state that your mind is made up and not to bother you with any facts, but you’re only seeking the twoof. Based on you ‘anti-corportate” jargon you’re just an agenda driven leftist kook.
Chill guy, You’re blinded from seeing any objective facts by your far leftist ideology.
Simple obvious facts eludes you. How can you expect to honestly analyze 911.
“Something is wrong with a society that has more prisons than schools.” - SH
This is ridiculous. The are 2.3 million people in prison in the USA. There are + 15 million people in colleges alone. This is simple and obvious yet you state the opposite. One has to wonder why?
http://www.albany.edu/dept/eaps/prophe/data/National_Data/USADataBlurb.doc
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm
Attack me all you want - You say “TRUTHER” as if you somehow have exclusive claim on the truth.
Show me the evidence that Osama Bin Laden is responsible for the WTC attacks. My mind is not made up. It’s always open.
I correct myself regarding prisons. More prisons are being built right now than schools.
Wackenhut trades its stock on the open market based on how many prisoners are currently incarcerated. Its a conflict of interest; This is what bothers me. But thanks for addressing at least one of my statements. You’re attempt to categorize me is so typical.
Rather than viewing me as an individual you have to base your opinion of me on your group think mentality. Again my mind is not made up about anything regarding 911, but apparently I won’t find any real answers here. I think you my friend are the one who’s mind has been made for you. I will always feel free to question and be cautious of anyone who claims to know all the answers, without really giving any real information.
Again I say : if the US Govt wanted to remove any doubt about the official story, why not just release some footage of a plane hitting the Pentagon. Where one lie exist many follow.
I came to this site looking for some real answers and unfortunately I must look further. You just cannot argue that testimony from janitors inside the WTC at the time prior to and after impact. They stating that Bombs were exploding inside the building. NOW, you’re dismissing this without ANY question.
What reason does this man have to LIE. Unless you have an underlying motive you cannot dismiss this. Good Luck with your closed mind and unwillingness to see beyond your social motivation or should I say programing?
“I correct myself regarding prisons. More prisons are being built right now than schools.” - SH
Another unsubstantiated claim even if true doesn’t prove anything at all especially concerning 911, and it’s also another lie from you. The construction of schools is in another universe as compared to prison construction.
http://www.ncjrs.gov/app/Search/Abstracts.aspx?id=240901
http://www.edfacilities.org/ds/statistics.cfm#
“Again I say : if the US Govt wanted to remove any doubt about the official story, why not just release some footage of a plane hitting the Pentagon. Where one lie exist many follow.” - SH
This is a hoot. They have tons of footage of the planes hitting the WTC, and it still hasn’t convinced the twoofers of the world. As far as the footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon. This has already been addressed at length on this site and elsewhere. Basically the government’s claim is that there is no good footage due to the speed of the plane versus the low grade of surveilance video. There are plenty of eyewitnesses to the plane approaching and hitting the Pentagon there is even the evidence of street lights knocked down by the plane, but somehow unlike your janitors hearing sounds I don’t think that those witnesses will be acceptable to you.
For clarification they have released video of the plane hitting the Pentagon. It’s just not good video.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12818225/
9/11 Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html
I wonder if it really matters who perpetrated 9/11. Of course, it is obvious that the US Government didn’t do it. Why would it murder US citizens for dubious advantages that could be secured by surer and less controversial means? Even the CIA and Georgie boy would not be so monumentally stupid.
It may have been Al Quaeda. Perhaps not. The focus here should be on the poor souls who died; the thousands who suffer by loss of partners, fathers, mothers, loved ones. The focus should be on ensuring it does not happen again. If it was not Al Qaeda, why are our young men and women making their children orphans by looking into caves in Pakistan? Ask your government why the blood of our nation’s sons and daughters is being bled in Iraq and Pakistan. Ask where is Osama Bin Laden. The sorry fact is that it doesn’t know anymore. It has become mired in the conflict so long that it doesn’t remember why it is there.
America, you preach peace. But you bring war everywhere you go.
Justa Jo - how many cameras are placed on and around the Pentagon? Since you seem to know everything, why don’t you give me the exact number. Now, I have reviewed your information and there is no real footage of a plane just a vapor trail. If you say that their is clear video of the plane, your blatantly lying. The fact is that the most secure building in the world has countless frames of video footage, yet the only few frames released leave more questions than answers. What is your deal anyway? what is your position? You believe that some guys in a cave planned and executed all of this. Remember its OK to not have all of the answers, It’s not OK to turn a blind eye to relevant questions that any sane person with common sense will ask. I remember I was like you, kind-of (not so closed minded) but I watched the whole thing unfold before my eyes. I remember that only minutes after the fisrt plane struck the media (WHORES) began spouting the name Osama Bin Laden before any such investigation had even begun. The media is used to create opinion. The media is used to create truths from fiction. As in this case, they didn’t say You know, Osama Bin Laden, the CIA asset that we helped arm and train to fight for US interests in Afghanistan. The media molds the story to serve a specific need of those that control it . Disinformation is a very effective weapon especially when the country is in shock. It is used as a psychological weapon on people like yourself that don’t really want to know, you simply just want to be fed the truth right.
If you say the name over and over again pretty soon its burned into the mind of every man woman and child.
Remember, I never claimed to have all of the answers, and my mind is completely open. I hope and pray that our govt and military , the most powerful nation and military on the planet was simply totally and utterly negligent and not knowingly responsible for LETTING the attacks happen. I certainly hope that Osama and Al-qaeda acted totally on their own, it just seems that with everyone so convinced by a evidence orgy that we might have caught, charged and convicted at least Osama.
I don’t know what’s worse the incompetence or the corruption.
Again, since you seem to have infallible evidence please share it with the FBI, so that they could at least charge OSAMA with the crime. I mean the media has already told everyone he’s guilty, so why is he not in custody. Why was he allowed to escape so many times? Wake up and think!
“…If you say that their is clear video of the plane, your blatantly lying.” - SH
Don’t be obtuse. Everyone can read that I made it perfectly clear that the Pentagon video was poor . I also explained that due to the speed of the plane the surveilance camera did not capture it well. Surveillance cameras operates at a low frame per second rate. In case you didn’t know.
I missed the part where you admitted to spewing false claims like “More prisons are being built right now than schools.” So far nothing that you have claimed is even remotely true. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Yet you make wild unsubstantiated claims. You’re ignorant on the subject of 911. You seem to assume if nobody has spoon fed you the information on a given subject then the info must not exist even though it is out there for anyone to research.
We don’t have a video for the Pentagon equal to all of those WTC videos, but Here’s a bunch of photos of 757 debris at the Pentagon that you can ignore like you’ve ignored the myriad eyewitness accounts of the people who saw the plane hit the Pentagon. so that you can continue to peddle your lies.
http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm
“I remember that only minutes after the fisrt plane struck the media (WHORES) began spouting the name Osama Bin Laden before any such investigation had even begun. ” - SH
Interesting: media = bad / OBL = innocent
I’m sure you never heard of OBL prior to 911. There’s a lot of things that you’ve never heard of, but there aren’t really a lot of millionaire leaders of international terrorists armies that have declared war against the USA and have already bombed US embassies in East Africa to choose from. Maybe you have another in mind, Maybe Joe Blow from?
For the FBI and every other actual professional intelligence agency in the world the process of elimination was quite simple. The list of guys willing, capable, and motivated to do 911 is pretty short, and OBL is right at the top. Now unless you’re going to suggest that M. Atta and his cohorts were not members of Bin Laden’s organization, Al-Quaeda, it seems a bit silly to try to imply that OBL’s is innocent.
Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders 23 February 1998
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
Bin Laden, Most Wanted For Embassy Bombings?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/27/AR2006082700687.html
More examples of just making pulling stuff out of nowhere:
” The fact is that the most secure building in the world has countless frames of video footage,” - SH
Who says the Pentagon is the most secure building in the world? It’s an office building. I doubt that they have high speed cameras traind on every square foot 24/7/365.
“I hope and pray that our govt and military , the most powerful nation and military on the planet was simply totally and utterly negligent and not knowingly responsible for LETTING the attacks happen.” - SH
Having the most powerful military in the world does not make a country invincible to terrorist attack. The US military particularly prior to 911 is/was geared towards defending against conventional military attacks. America has suffered terrorist attacks before 911 at the WTC in 93′ , Oklahoma City, and several embassy bombings during the 90’s.
According to your ‘logic’ almost every government in the world must be complicit or negligent because there have been terrorist attacks all over the world for the last 50 years. The majority of which have been perpetrated by Arab terrorists. Instead of having an “open mind” you seem to be in denial about this.
list of Al-Quaeda terrorist attacks
http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/033104.pdf
Beam Me Up Scotty! I think you know the rest of this phrase.
If you want some compelling evidence please view this information.
http://www.thepowerhour.com/911_analysis/french-911.htm
If you have any understanding of gas propulsion used by many of our rockets and BB missiles, you’ll know that hydrogen in the form of steam leaves an intensely white vapor trail - steam is white- right??? The pentagon frames that have clearly been altered seem to show a cruise missile. Perhaps they shot a missile at a plane or another missile. Oh yeah - the Pentagon is the nerve center for the most advanced military intelligence on the planet, your telling me that it’s simply an office building? Well it’s the only office building I know of with missile batteries.
Oh and there are hundreds of on-site security cameras providing 3 frames of video???????? Hmmmmm???!
This was a premeditated psychological attack on the American people by the powers that be. If you don’t believe this simply read PNAC project for a new American century where it clearly states a need for a catalyzing event similar to Pearl Harbor to invoke change of power read it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
“The pentagon frames that have clearly been altered seem to show a cruise missile. Perhaps they shot a missile at a plane or another missile. - SH
“Calgon take me away” - I think you know the rest of this phrase.
Perhaps… Perhaps…Or “perhaps” a flying pig hit the Pentagon. What are you talking about? The ‘evil’ US military has altered footage yet it clearly shows a cruise missile? They then release the footage so that genius twoofers can figure out the ‘evil’ plot. You’re grasping at straws. No… you just have an vivid imagination.
“Oh yeah - the Pentagon is the nerve center for the most advanced military intelligence on the planet, your telling me that it’s simply an office building? Well it’s the only office building I know of with missile batteries.” -SH
Using a lot of hyperbole (look it up) does not make your argument sound better. The White House has missile batteries on top of it as well. The white house is an office building and residency. The Pentagon is not “the most secure building in the world” as you previously stated.
If you had any common sense you would consider the possibilty that surveillance cameras were not installed at the Pentagon in order to record missiles or airplanes colliding with the building. They are ordinary low speed surveillance cameras intended to capture jerks committing ordinary assaults and break-ins. You’re coming up with a lot of fanciful fantasies about what could have happened, but I haven’t seen you address the eyewitnesses to the attack or the 757 wreckage at the site.
“PNAC project for a new American century” - You need to lay-off the far left websites. That stuff will rot your brain. I’m familiar with the PNAC document. It doesn’t have anything to do with 911, The PNAC is just a think tank. They have no power to create 911.
http://www.newamericancentury.org
Even after reading your Wiki link. I fail to see where there is any evidence of a PNAC connection to 911 except that leftist 911 huckster David Ray Griffin has made some unfounded accusations. David Ray Griffin is a Professor of Philosophy of Religion at Claremont. That doesn’t sound like the type of expertise that would apply to investigating 911.
Further evidence, from a peer-reviewed and refereed, highly respected scientific journal, that what happened on 9/11 is not what our corrupt and criminal govt. told us:
“Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe”
We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.
http://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/openaccess2.htm
Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook wrote:
Al-Qaida, literally “the database”, was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.
Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is “a mythical historical narrative”.
And see this Los Angeles Times Article, reviewing a BBC documentary entitled “The Power of Nightmares”, which shows that the threat from Al Qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article on the people within the U.S. who are behind the hype).
Not only has the U.S. government hyped Al Qaeda, but it has issued numerous fake terror alerts to scare people.
There is a word for intentionally creating fear in order to manipulate opinion for political ends: terrorism.
Note: I had originally started this essay with the following quote:
Even former French intelligence and military officer Pierre-Henri Bunel in this speech. says:
The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US.”
Robin Cook was a leftist firebrand and opponent of the Iraq invasion. He doesn’t no any more about CIA files than the janitor at the British Parliament building.
Al-Qaeda, alternatively spelled al-Qaida and sometimes al-Qa’ida, (Arabic: ????????; al-q??idah; translation: The Base) is a well-known Islamist group founded sometime between August 1988[5] and late 1989/early 1990.[6] It operates as a network comprising both a multinational, stateless arm[7] and a fundamentalist Sunni movement calling for al-qaeda al-sulbah (a vanguard of the strong).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaida
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm
Al-Qaeda doesn’t mean “database”
Osama bin Laden explained the origin of the term in a videotaped interview with Al Jazeera (journalist) Tayseer Alouni in October 2001:
“ The name ‘al-Qaeda’ was established a long time ago by mere chance. The late Abu Ebeida El-Banashiri established the training camps for our mujahedeen against Russia’s terrorism. We used to call the training camp al-Qaeda. The name stayed.[34]
The twoofers are always grasping at straws. A few leftist anti-Isreal type cranks want to claim Al-Qaeda doesn’t exist, and to the twoofer this outways the OBL himself admitting Al-Qaeda’s existence.
‘Al-Qaida, literally “the database”, was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.’
Utter rubbish. ‘Al Qaeda’ is defined as ‘the base’ or ‘the foundation’, namely the Salafi world-view to which its members subscribe. Cook (assuming this quote is real) was talking nonsense. The documentary ‘The Power of Nightmares’ was replete with similar errors:
http://www.peterbergen.com/bergen/articles/details.aspx?id=221
And if Al Qaeda is a myth, then who exactly are the people quoted in the above post?
I know the truthers like their ‘information’ in bite-sized packets conveyed by bogus internet sites, and lack the mental capability to do any proper research, but is it too much to ask them to actually read people like Lia, Sagemann, Gunaratna etc who have actually studied AQ, analysed their operations, and also are aware of the content of jihadi literature and websites, before they display their monumental ignorance for all to see? Or are truthers too afraid they’ll have their illusions shattered in the process.
Incidentally, Brzezinski’s comments are in full here:
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001916.php
As you can see, his comments on a ‘mythical historical narrative’ was a specific reference to the Bush administration’s justification of the Iraq war. This has been taken by ‘What Really Happened’ as a reference to 9/11 and AQ.
Truthers caught misquoting someone and taking their words out of context. How shocking! That’s never happened before …
http://www.debunking911.com/quotes.htm
‘Further evidence, from a peer-reviewed and refereed, highly respected scientific journal, that what happened on 9/11 is not what our corrupt and criminal govt. told us:’
You mean this paper?
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=141353
http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2009/04/active-thermitic-material-claimed-in.html
And you think that the ‘Open Chemical Physics Journal’ is academically peer-reviewed?:
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM
And this the article that even a fellow ‘truther’ like Ruppert thinks is a load of crap:
http://mikeruppert.blogspot.com/2009/04/media-outlets-requesting-review_21.html
Is this all you people have got?
Professor of Paranoia, Steven E. Jones, the author of the “Thermitic Material” discovery is a conspiracy nut . Nothing he offers can be viewed as reliable. BYU ran him off and disavowed his 911 theories.
Other academics don’t take his theory seriously.
http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/2681
I have come here to understand why “truthers” are viewed as whackos. Evidence put by those who believe in conspiracy is never challenged; on the contrary the opposers embrace the official statements without considering how partisan these experts actually are. In addition what I also find is that when various writers in these forums challenge conventional thinking, they’re insulted. .
“The purveyors of conspiracy theories concerning the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington on 11th September 2001 try to claim that al-Qaeda was a scapegoat for “false flag” atrocities committed by the US government against its own people.”
Actually, my personal opinion is not that “Al Qaeda ” is used as a “scapegoat” so much by the US and the UK, but that they actually work for them, serving as both an attack dog and a bogeyman, so, being assets of Western intelligence, claiming responsibility for terrorist atrocities is part of their job description.
There is no doubt that the US funded and armed the radical Islamist Mujahideen (from which “Al Qaeda” developed) in the 1980s to create a problem for the USSR.
They are a creation of, and a tool of Western intelligence agencies.
Read this interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,
President Jimmy Carter’s National Security Adviser in “Le Nouvel Observateur” (Paris, 15-21 January 1998 )
” Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?
B: It isn’t quite that. We didn’t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.
Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn’t believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don’t regret anything today?
B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?
B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.
B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn’t a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries. ”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html
“Cook (assuming this quote is real) was talking nonsense.”
(J.Welch)
“Assuming this quote is real”
……. since Mr Welch apparently can’t be bothered to find out whether it’s real or not, I’d like to assure him that it is indeed real, and I’ll even provide a convenient link to the Guardian article it came from.
“Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally “the database”, was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.”
(Robin Cook, The Guardian, Friday 8 July 2005)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development
Also here’s a link to an interesting article on the origins of the name Al Qaida.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUN20051120&articleId=1291
Fraser, your past comments on this matter indicate a degree of credulity which is excessive even for a ‘truther’. If you prefer to rely on ill-informed and unverified nonsense like ‘globalresearch’, rather than people (like Gunaratna, Bergen and other sources I have referred you to) on al-Qaeda, more fool you.
It might also interest you to know that the Mujahidin and Taliban/Al Qaeda are not the same. I know you’re knowledge of Afghan affairs is superficial at best, but if you were - for example - to read William Maley’s ‘The Afghanistan Wars’ or Barnett Rubin’s ‘The Fragmentation of Afghanistan’, you’d recognise this fact. The majority of ex-Mujahidin ended up fighting with the Northern Alliance (including Ahmed Shah Massoud, who was assassinated by AQ two days before 9/11).
You contend that that AQ ‘actually work for [the USA and UK], serving as both an attack dog and a bogeyman, so, being assets of Western intelligence, claiming responsibility for terrorist atrocities is part of their job description. There is no doubt that the US funded and armed the radical Islamist Mujahideen (from which “Al Qaeda” developed) in the 1980s to create a problem for the USSR’. This fantasy has been dismissed by me in my responses to Mr Bradley (http://counterknowledge.com/2009/01/more-on-15-questions-for-911-truthers-a-reply-to-stewart-bradley/). Your response to this rebuttal - like many other truthers - is to simply ignore it.
Re: the Brzezinski interview, I can find no record on the ‘Nouvel Observateur’ website to any interview done with that journal in January 1998, but I can find the following for December 1998. As someone who can read French, I can confirm that it doesn’t even refer to Afghanistan:
http://hebdo.nouvelobs.com/hebdo/parution/p1779/articles/a35093-.html?xtmc=zbigniewbrzezinski1998&xtcr=3
I will check the printed copies of this journal at the earliest available opportunity, but I have a feeling that this ’source’ has been concocted. Other online searches show that the supposed ‘interview’ is on the site of the so-called ‘Voltaire Network’, run by Thierry Meysan. Meysan, as is well-known, was one of the first to start telling the lies that got the 9/11 ‘Truth’ movement going. He is also so barking mad that he believes Beslan was committed by the CIA.
So thank you, Fraser - I think I have identified yet another distortion by the ‘truthers’ in the form of a bogus interview. Once I check the relevant editions of the ‘Nouvel Observateur’, I’ll let you know.
“Actually, my personal opinion is not that “Al Qaeda ” is used as a “scapegoat” so much by the US and the UK, but that they actually work for them, serving as both an attack dog and a bogeyman, ” - fraser
At least you indicated that this fantasy is your personal opinion. We’re making progress.
“I will check the printed copies of this journal at the earliest available opportunity, but I have a feeling that this ’source’ has been concocted.”
(J.Welch)
Dear Mr Welch, I believe this is the article you’re looking for.
Since you are able to read French, I won’t bother to translate it for you.
http://hebdo.nouvelobs.com/hebdo/parution/p1732/articles/a19460-.html?xtmc=zbigniewbrzezinski&xtcr=5
“Al-Qaeda evolved from the Maktab al-Khidamat (Services Office), a Muslim organization founded in 1980 to raise and channel funds and recruit foreign mujahadeen for the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan. It was founded by Abdullah Yusuf Azzam, a Palestinian Islamic scholar and member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Maktab al-Khadamat organized guest houses in Peshawar, in Pakistan, near the Afghan border, and paramilitary training camps in Afghanistan to prepare international non-Afghan recruits for the Afghan war front. Azzam persuaded Bin Laden to join MAK, to use his own money and use his connections with “the Saudi royal family and the petro-billionaires of the Gulf” to raise more to help the mujahideen.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#CITEREFWright2006
Well done, Fraser, you’ve actually learnt something about the MAK. Now, I’ll save you the bother of actually reading sources more detailed and extensive than Wikipedia, so let’s see what they have to say about the links between the CIA and bin Laden - or rather, the lack of them:
Peter Bergen - There is ‘no evidence’ of any US funding or assistance to bin Laden, or ‘any evidence of CIA personnel meeting with bin Laden or anyone else in his circle’.
See ‘The Osama bin Laden I knew’, particularly pp.60-61.
Jason Burke’s study on ‘Al Qaeda’ notes that CIA training and funding went to Mujahidin, not the Arab volunteers (p.59).
Steve Coll in ‘Ghost Wars’ draws similar conclusions, noting that Osama bin Laden was “out of CIA eyesight” during the 1980s (p.87). The autonomous nature of MAK is confirmed by Rohan Gunaratna in ‘Inside Al Qaeda’ (pp.23-26).
Lawrence Wright also confirms this in ‘The Looming Tower’ (pp.100-108), and also comments on the fact that more foreign fighters came to wage jihad in Afghanistan during the 1990s (i.e. after the end of the covert programme to aid the anti-Soviet resistance) than before (pp.301-304), which Gunaratna confirms (pp.10-11). These fighters included the backbone of AQ as it emerged during this period.
As for the British angle, Stephen Dorril (no fan of HMG) makes it clear in ‘MI6: Fifty Years of Special Operations’ that the British armed and assisted Ahmed Shah Massoud. You might remember him as the man who fought the Taliban during the 1990s, and the one who AQ assassinated on 9th September 2001 as a favour to their ally Mullah Omar.
So your contention about the US and UK governments creating AQ and arming bin Laden is false, just like your claims about Norman Mineta’s testimony and your rubbish about the hijackers being trained at Pensacola. You see what happens when you actually read proper sources, rather than Wikipedia?
As for the Brzezinski interview, this again is no evidence for your contention, as he is talking about the covert programme to aid the Afghan Mujahidin - not a (non-existent) programme to arm Arab militants. He is also reflecting the pre-9/11 view that aid to the Muj was a worthwhile price for ending the Cold War and freeing Eastern Europe from Communist domination (he was born in Poland, after all). He does not in any way confirm your myth about AQ being an Anglo-American creation, and if you had the reading skills of an adult you’d see this.
“Actually, my personal opinion is not that “Al Qaeda ” is used as a “scapegoat” so much by the US and the UK, but that they actually work for them, serving as both an attack dog and a bogeyman, ” - fraser
Your opinion betrays your soft racism that non-Anglo races never do anything in their own interest. They are all controlled all of the time, and can never manage anything on their own.
Exactly why is it that these Islamists would do the bidding of the CIA et al to the extent of suicide attacks when their co-religionist are going to absorb the brunt of US & UK retaliation.
Nor can Fraser explain one other point - if AQ is an Anglo-American creation, why is there no hint of this in the jihadi chatter I refer to in this post?
Here’s another one to explain away - why al-Qaeda refers to 9/11 as ‘the victorious invasion of Manhattan’:
http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Bswords%5D=8fd5893941d69d0be3f378576261ae3e&tx_ttnews%5Bany_of_the_words%5D=Pakistan%20Frontier%20Corps&tx_ttnews%5Bpointer%5D=11&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=5191&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=7&cHash=8122fb20e1
I can stop all the debates fellows.
I was there, i held the liquid metal that poured off the towers. Massive fires!! There were no bombs!
Anyone that says otherwise hates this country and insults the people that were sacrificed that day!!
So you dont want my help??
If anyone wants to learn of the true events of 911 come to the
” JREF” forums. To the rest of you.
http://www.eatliver.com/img/2009/4288.jpg
Why 8 years passed, the criminals involved in this act are still around and smilling? One more sad history event that will never be solved…
Of course LOL-Qaeda will support the official version, since they are CIA from the start. The real Bin Laden denied responsibility if you look at the tapes after 9/11, BUT in the fake Bin Laden CIA/Mossad tape, he confesses!
Don’t talk Al-CIA-duh at face value.
Well, Anachore, you seem to be able to convince yourself of anything. Even of the existence of a non-existent ‘tape’ where OBL denied that he committed 9/11.
There also seems to be a bit of a logical flaw in your argument. On the one hand, you imply that Al Qaeda is CIA-recruited, and working as part of a ‘black op’. On the other hand, you’re implying that bin Laden (who is supposedly part of this ‘false flag’ attack) has declared his innocence.
If you think about it (assuming you’re able to actually think), there’s a bit of a contradiction which undermines your argument completely.
The finding of two of the hijackers passports, has always struck me as an odd….not impossiible….just unlikely.
I’m sure its just another among a multitude of coincidences and chance occurrences that surround what some might claim are ‘false flag’ activities.
Steve, seeing as the personal effects of other passengers on all four flights were recovered and returned to their families, I don’t find that odd at all. And if you can name an example of another ‘false flag’ attack involving such elaborate preperation and planning involving a substantial number of people, all of whom remained silent and kept their secret from the public domain, your speculation may not be entirely groundless. Unfortunately, you cannot do this, because there are no analogous cases of a ‘false flag’ attack being conducted on this scale.
Logic - as well as evidence (including the sources I cite in this post) - should therefore lead you to conclude that it was a genuine terrorist atrocity, brought to you by the same network responsible for Nairobi, Dar es-Salaam, the Cole bombing, Bali, Mombasa, Istanbul, Madrid, London, Amman and Sharm el-Sheikh. Or were all these bogus too?
Perhaps you might have included Tashkent in your list had one couragious individual not blown the lid on those ones.
On the recovery of personal effects, see here:
http://www.911myths.com/html/passport_recovered.html
Anarchore’s reference to a ‘tape’ in which OBL allegedly denied responsibility for 9/11 seems to be a reference to this statement:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/
This was a written statement (not a video or audio tape) which was allegedly brought out of Afghanistan by courier. There is no confirmation of its provenance, or any proof that OBL actually issued it. But then on Planet Truther, that one scrap of paper outweighs all the video statements of the past eight years, not to mention the internet chatter cited above.
Tashkent?
Incidentally, I presume that you no longer think it strange that personal effects belonging to the hijackers were recovered.
Indeed,
As implausible as it may first appear, I have to ask myself, what purpose would it serve to plant evidence like this other than to arouse suspicion. And why plant evidence to prove suqami was on the flight when there is ample evidence of this anyway.
Nb: I mistakenly thought that two of the hijackers intact passports were found prior to the collapse, which would have been a hell of a coincidence. However it was just Suqami’s
I think there’s a lot of unresolved mental health stuff on this blog, I mean the facts speak for themselves, the plans, hijackings, atrocities, mass murder of innocents etc involved in 9/11 are there for all to see and contemplate. What is the problem? A terrororist organisation carries out murder on a mass scale and there’s a shitstorm of revenge in its wake, yeh, that’s how it is. What’s so difficult about that to grasp? I think pot-smoking in isolation has a lot to do with all this theory stuff …
It looks like the troofer movement has pretty much petered out as predicted… good riddance. It was a tool of the far left to sew the seeds of dissension against the Bush administration and the USA as a whole. The troofers, who claimed such insight, were just useful idiots that have now been kicked to the curb of history.
Just like support for the resultant revenge is petering out.
Not that it was really about revenge at all. More like a pipeline!
Al Qeada played right into the hands of the neocon cabal when they perpetrated those attacks.
A Defense Industry Security Command Organization is an unconstitutional entity funded by tax dollars, not a dance. The business of staying at war. Targeting Civilians in a democracy that has perpetrated history is legitimate to reach the voter, if that democracy exacts foreign policy out of greed and laziness or both. Nations are history, are no more. Buy Your Honduran Passport online or have a Serbian one. Pigs have to eat too, apparently, even if they become cannibals, as witnessed that day. To just open the doors to negotiation of nuke retrieval, forced the hemisphere into the atrocity(ies).The perished had their chance and warning too, but were kept in the dark by their own kind. Plowing a jet down a busy street would have killed many more that morning. Be glad FEMA had a handle on it. Be glad the power plant was not struck. Celebrate that Israeli tracking of hostiles in CONUS did not permit 40 jets. Change is. Change hurts. Was it just me that saw the fellows listed as dead in the U.S. press after the demonstration of attack style ( setting the bar) in the Dar el Salam and Nairobi bombing being interviewed on BBC, moreover that the flag the nutters always try to burn was fireproof. What made the London ‘statements ‘so possible was piggybacking them on exercises held that day (copy). (Visor Consultants). Is it not just begging , after repeatedly being told not to dock in Aden to go ahead and do it anyway? If peace broke out, the muslim theorizes, Israelis would kill eachother too, just like any nation addicted to war as a business venture. Recall the west African UK support and training intiatiative for troops. Initial instructors were kidnapped, a dozen or so, and lo and behold the following months (probably)trained the other side whom they vowed aid against. The racket was diamonds to Antwerp/London, the weapons from Bulgaria, same feces, different day. Who retired the Australian sports team in Bali? Sportstars…they get expensive too after a while. What were the Egyptian (30+) army officers doing on board the Egypt-Air flight anyway, when the law ( in Egypt) states that no more than Five government personnell are allowed to pass onto such a carrier ( it becoming target worthy), since a long time ago. These fellows just received instructor certification in chemical and biological offense and defense training. Who do You think did not want that presence in the volatile MidE. If the gossip on the street in the area was amassing that “Really Fat Tuesday” ( for some) was around the corner in Manhattan and FEMA rocks up to wire the candles for demolition, I would agree with anyone who says the U.S. caught a lucky break that day. Alternatively being handed a nuke with NYC written on it, does force decisions You really can’t train for. What is possible? The U.S. needs North Korea and Iran, for some time more to come. How else on a U.S. oath of citizenship (foreign and domestic) can government be checked and balanced (or are these economic terms). The Gravy held hot metal, ..what is thermate , thermite, eutectics?. It happened and those accused of being responsible may not be smiling and not be responsible, but nevertheless have to cry and die somewhere. What of the Greeks mistaken for Israelis in Cairo attacks (bus schedule changes.) What of the Swiss in Luxor, thrown to the dogs when other travel agencies handling U.S. and Israeli “cargo” were not there in force, after the early morning raid of security forces provoked up close and personal retaliation that Luxorious day. What of the German Customs informing U.S. officials of a bomb accompanying the regular Heroin shipment (DEA bait) to NY on the Maid and being told to “let it go” (over Lockerbie), akin to ltDV’s ”let one happen”?The pattern does not change. AQ, whatever it was alleged to mean literally, is a bunch of services and their toy soldiers, disgruntled. If the objective is to end wars, a global government and all the good utopian stuff, then the United States, having assumed the position of global predominant power, has the responsibility to lead. Inside job? Act of sacrifice. 3000 persons versus one well placed advanced nuclear weapon (40 million and uninhabitable landmass). Remote planes ? Since the 50’s. Global Hawk (since ’72) on board , and the Europeans were pissed off when they had to remove that capability from the craft after delivery. Where is the dynamo, the wave energy, solar endeavour? Alaskan reserves, fields so vast deemed secret by NSA but celebrated at discovery initially. Go piss on an arab and drive to the end of Your property to check Your email. Ever was ashamed to be American? Those days are over.
Arsenals were MISSING (scrubbed the web, a goddamn comicbook). Under 1900. Andaman: 600 seconds X 3 pops per second= 1800. The math goes on that there are LOOSE between 55 and 75 leftovers. According to hollywood prep as has been NostradamnIC before, we all will see in our lifetime the ‘lone gunman” (not X-file) with a really big gun and one bullet the size of a suitcase. The Hitler Channel is really good at that. Everyone saw the CNN ribbon go blood red after the attacks? Anyone notice CNN Int’l and Domestic equalize their ribbons? Try watching BBC Int’l and CNN Int’l at the top of the hour and see who kicks in with what top story. There is no more news, only entertainment. Anyone wondering what that dung slung across the screen was for on that anniversary of ribbon cutting/ground breaking of the Pentagon (Che Guevarra?) take solice in the fact (it is out there) that few were sacrificed for the good of the many, and for the rest of the civilized world, and it was a leadership role that had to be assumed. If the pigs decide to blow away their accountants and others with prior knowledge cashed in on the event, let that be their legacy. Those that did perish, did not have to and the event was entirely preventable, in my opinion. There is a really loud piece on psychiatry and terrorism, worth a google. You always hear about AQ commanders and lieutenants, where is the General Staff?
Looks like someone’s just taken their head for a shit.
I wonder who it was that wrote a terrorist lorem ipsum generator.
Just a further follow-up here, one of the common ‘truther’ myths is that no one had ever heard of al-Qaeda before 9/11, and that this mysterious terrorist network just emerged out of the blue.
So why - if that’s the case - were we seeing reports on AQ (with a specific reference to its name) in the press in November 1998:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bin-laden-leads-global-islamic-militants-1183080.html
Incoming links from other sites